Thanks to Eugene Cho for continuing to engage this conversation on his blog.

See more Jack Black videos at Funny or Die

So this will have to fill in for my Part 2 of the 'Down Side To Freedom of Speech' post. Seems like every time I break a long post into parts, they end up heading in too many directions and I never finish them.

But I love the freedoms of our country. I love that I can be a follower of Jesus, openly pray and discuss my faith-filled worldview.

As such, I live in a country where everyone has the right to their own worldview, beliefs and lifestyle. So when the discussion of Prop 8 and Gay Rights as a whole is brought up, I sympathize with the Gay Rights movement. We don't have the same beliefs, so if they want to marry one another, who am I to stand in the way?

[I'm sure half of my readers will disagree, at least on some level - please feel free - I would appreciate others views - which is why I'm posting it on my blog. Just be nice!]

So I understand two people in love, living together and wanting to get married and be able to speak on one an others behalf in say, a hospital situation.

What I'm not comfortable with is a larger debate or concern I have. Our country was built on a separation of State & Church, to keep the State from dictating the Church or the reciprocal.

The reciprocal is my hang up - we (as a country) are constantly trying to keep 'religion' out of the government, schools, ect, ect. But religion is just a worldview. My religious beliefs are my worldview. There is no way for me to be unbiased on the grounds of religion or the government. I'm a Christian - that's how I see the world.

So the atheist, the agnostic, the scientist, the evolutionist, the secular humanist - their worldview has some how been accept and defined as nonreligious - therefore constitutionally sound. But they are just as biased in their beliefs as I am and have just as much potential to be closed minded, judgmental and all the other words my faith has come to be known for. Their worldview is driven by deep down convictions and though they would never use the term, they nonetheless have faith!

We all have theories about the beginning of all we know, about the meaning of our existence and about what happens when we cease to exist. And I stress theories. I call mine faith, they call theirs hypotheses or beliefs - but that is what all worldviews are composed of. Beliefs.

I can no more prove my theories then they can, and in this beautiful country, we both have that freedom and that right.

So what I never want is my worldview to be illegal. My faith is as scientific as the atheists or anyone else. And the State can no more be unbiased than the Church. Because the State is operated by people and people have worldviews. So the State must work to up hold a liberty and justice that falls on common ground. Otherwise, by forcing my faith-based worldview out, they allow another worldview to dominate.


Kevin Davis said...

Forgot to mention that I thought the video was both hilarious and a misunderstood view of Christian opposition to Gay Rights.

But did you notice Darrel from the Office in the clergy outfit - love that guy. And the kid MD!

And I liked the line - 'but make our clothes and do our hair!'

Ryan Billings said...

The difference is that they (scientists, evolutionists, etc) are constantly trying to prove their theories. Why do you think we build telescopes, particle accelerators, and electron microscopes? Do we know exactly how everything works? No, but we can all agree that something holds us to the planet and through tests based on mass, orbits, and rotation we begin to realize that we are held here by gravity as best we understand it. From this and many other semi-proven scientific discoveries we piece together a broad ideal that most if not all things can be explained by science.

The science community believes the Earth started with a "big bang". To try and prove this theory they build ginormous proton accelerators to watch how protons shatter when they are ran into each other. They build ginormous telescopes to see farther out in space (and back in time) to watch supernovas, blackholes, solar systems in their infancy. From this they begin to understand how stars, galaxies, and solar systems are formed. From further studies they may be able to figure out how we (humans) came to be and whether we were created or instant-ized from some big explosion.

Where are your experiments, telescopes, faith accelerators? Can it ever be proven that God exists? Yes, according to scripture, when he returns.

I don't think the paleontologist in Wyoming or the astronomer in Arizona are telling other people if they can get married or not.

Man, that went on far too long, sorry.

Ryan Billings said...

One point I argue with people is the story of Noah and his Ark.

The people I discuss this with argue facts from the Bible.

I argue facts from science.

They say a flood encompassed the whole world.

I say, we didn't even know the extent of how big the world was until the era of Columbus. So how would anyone know that it covered the whole world.

They say the flood covered every valley and mountain.

I say the amount of water that existed in the time of Noah is the same amount of water there is today. Water does leave or come from space. It freezes, it melts, it flows to the ocean, it evaporates, it rains, it snows, it does it all over again. Forever. Unless the Earth was dramatically different than it is today, it is physically impossible for the water to cover the whole earth.

They say every animal was on board the ark in pairs.

I say what do animals eat. Other animals. How many animals are there in the world? Thousands. The Ark would have to be larger than any ship built today. After the flood how did animals get to islands/continents such as North America or Australia?


There probably was a great flood, a flood never seen in that time. The flood probably covered much of the middle east, or by their knowledge, the "entire world". They probably were able to load up the animals of the area, but just not all. Most, if not all survived, because the flood was regional.

Nicky said...

I am not lacking in the ability to laugh at myself, so I admit that I chuckled a few times when I first saw this video. However, just like you can't rely on a Hollywood film to give you an accurate history lesson, you can't rely on this clip to give anyone an accurate viewpoint of either side. It's entertaining, yes, but hopefully no one will actually believe this generalization of our beliefs. LOL

Ashley A said...

Kevin - well said. I agree with you 100% and that exact view is what i have been trying to get across in my discussions with others and my very few comments on here.

Billings - As we have discussed before, i still don't understand why it has so black and white. Why does it have to be either the scientist's theory or the creation story? Time in the Bible is not time like we know it today. We don't know how God created the earth... maybe scientist will help us better understand this phenomenon. Maybe God created the earth with a bang, and then through time... 7 days as stated in the Bible, which could mean anything really in terms of time because time is relative... the earth was created, just as God said it was, and evolution did take place, animals adapted and changed over time for survival. Why is it that everyone can't be correct? Just because our faith leads me to believe that God created the world.. that doesn't lead me to disbelieve scientist theories either. Why can't they coexist??? After all, that is your favorite word isn't it?

And the Noah story. I agree with you. I think that their world flooded and they did the best they could to gather all their livestock around their part of the world. We don't have to take stories in the Bible so literally because that is NOT the purpose of those stories... they aren't there so we can examine each one of them under a microscope. They are there to create a bigger picture, a meaning, a proverb, etc.

So in a since, we can still agree... even while we are disagreeing. And know i love you... either way.

Kevin Davis said...

Ryan - I don't think that is the difference, I know a lot of Christian scientists. I agree the religious people have been wrong in the past to accept faith blindly and not investigate - like when the world was flat. But all I've learned from science has only reinforced my belief in God, I don't see how it could have all come to be any other way.

And you are right, scientists, archeologists and paleontologists - they don't come off judging others, but they do have some set of morals. The Christian community is still trying to figure out how a faith of absolutes plays in a world very few, if any absolutes.

As to the flood, a lot of people interpret that story to mean the world as they knew it, localized. But stories of the bible neither prove or disprove God.

Nicky - I know what you mean, but it is the same reason I love SNL, I love to laugh, even when it is poking fun at my core beliefs. This was also not a battle fought in my state, like it was for you - so I'm sure you have a different perspective on the twisted stories.

Ashley - looking forward to you guys coming up, I love Ryan too and thanks for chiming in.

Latte said...

I did not watch the video...I have heard enough about prop 8! What I will say is if you believe in God and the Bible (KJV) then you understand God's word when he destroys towns, countries, and even at one point everyone but Noah's family...all because of stuff like prop 8!!! So tell me, how can you say hey I have my beliefs, and you have yours so were good, when God punished many for those same statements?


Kevin Davis said...


I understand where you are coming from - as I was raised with the same understandings. So, I believe in God, I believe Jesus is His son and is the only way to the Father and I believe in the bible. But the KJV is not the standard for the word of God, the original manuscripts in Hebrew, Arabic and Greek are - everything after that is a translation, and must be viewed as such - only a translation.

However, God is the one who judges and before Jesus came along, He destroyed villages. So I don't believe God will destroy a city today. What I'm wrestling with here is the Christians responsibility in the world we live in. If our responsibility is to share the good news and live that good news in our lives - we can only share it with others we are in relationship with. When we try to legislate it, we do end up sounding like judgmental jerks - not lovers of the greatest truth. God will take care of people, he hasn't called you or I to do that.

Nicky said...

Hey, isn't your birthday coming up? Maybe I just have a bad memory, but if so, Happy Birthday!

Nicky said...

I forgot to say...just as a test of my memory LOL...I want to say it's the 13th, right?

Latte said...

So in order to show others the Lord, we must be nice, let them do what they want, and lovingly teach them the way...I don't agree. We should say these are GODS rules please follow them...the end


Ryan Billings said...

^Sign me up!

Are you kidding me?!